Paging Dr Google: Tips for Finding the Best Medical Information Online – PediaCast 425

Show Notes

Description

  • This week we explore tips for finding trustworthy medical information online. What is the best way to search? Which sites and social media should you visit? Who can you trust… and how do you evaluate conflicting advice? Twitter guru, Dr Dave Stukus, visits the studio, along with NCH Social Media Manager, Diane Lang, and Media Relations Specialist, Katelyn Hanzel. This is a fun one you won’t want to miss!

Topics

  • Online Medical Information
  • Medical Myths and Misconceptions
  • Healthcare Communications
  • Social Media

Guests

Links

Web Sites

Twitter

Resources

  • Coming in August: Social Media for Medical Professionals: Strategies for Successfully Engaging in an Online World (Springer)

Transcription

Announcer 1: This is PediaCast.

[Music]

Announcer 2: Welcome to PediaCast, a pediatric podcast for parents. And now, direct from the campus of Nationwide Children's, here is your host, Dr. Mike.

Dr. Mike Patrick: Hello, everyone and welcome once again to PediaCast. It is a pediatric podcast for moms and dads. This is Dr. Mike, coming to you from the campus of Nationwide Children's Hospital. We're in Columbus, Ohio. 

It is Episode 425 for March 6, 2019. We're calling this one "Paging Dr. Google: Tips for Finding the Best Medical Information Online". I want to welcome all of you to the program.

0:00:59

I have a really important PediaCast episode for you today. And I know I say that often, like, "Hey, this is a really good one. We've got great information for you." But this one I will say is perhaps the most important episode that I've ever done and that's saying a lot since I recorded, what, we're up to 425? So there's 424 other episodes over the past 12.5 years. 

It's a lot of content. But if you have to pick just one episode to listen to at least up to this point, this would be the one. And I'll tell you why that is. I spent a lot of time putting these shows together. And my goal has always been, and it always will be, to improve health literacy among parents.

And the thinking goes like this, if it's parents, we can better understand the science underlying health and wellness concerns, the science behind the prevention efforts that we recommend, the treatment protocols that we do, what it is that we're recommending. 

0:02:03

The more that you understand those things, then the symptoms make sense, the work-up and the diagnosis make sense, the treatment makes sense, prevention efforts makes sense. And if prevention and treatment make sense in the context of a disease and how it works, then as parents and just as human beings, when we think about our own health and wellness, we're more likely to follow through with what's good for us through those prevention efforts and through the treatment. We're more likely to follow through and do what ultimately is good for us, which in turn will improve healthcare outcomes and quality of life for our kids, for ourselves, for our families.

And that's the ultimate goal, right, is to improve health outcomes and quality of life. That's my passion. That's why I do this, to empower moms and dads, to improve the lives of their kids and families.

0:03:00

But even with my best efforts, I cannot answer every question that you have, right? Even if I answer your question on the show and we have certainly answer lots and lots of listener questions over the years, even when I answer your question directly, you may have follow-up questions. Or there are new answers to the question that I did not understand and addressed when you asked it. Maybe I didn't understand exactly what you were getting at, what was most important in your mind that you wanted to get answered. And maybe I hedged around that. Or my answers may have raised other questions in your mind.

So even when I directly answered the question of a single listener, it may not  be adequate. What is better than improving health literacy and outcomes by listening to a podcast? Which by the way, I'm not discouraging you to do that, I love having listeners. I love providing evidence-based information for all of you. 

But what's even better than this is to help parents help themselves as they search for answers online. How do you do it? How do you it well? How do you get the best answers to any question you have? You don't have to wait for me to answer in the podcast. Where can you go and get the right information?

0:04:11

So today, we're going to consider, where do you start as you look for answers online on a webpages and blogs and social media channels and even podcasts? There's an enormous amount of information out there on the internet, some of it is good. But let's be honest, a lot of it is not good. And we're trying to change that as healthcare professionals.

We'd love it if most of the information online was good and just a little bit of it was bad, but that's not where we are right now in 2019. And it really is up to the public, to moms and dads and families, healthcare consumers, all of us to sort through it and differentiate between the trustworthy information and the misconceptions.

Yeah, there's been some talk as we think about vaccines. And in today's program, we're going to kind of go back to that quite a bit because it's a big public health issue right now. And we're not doing the public any service by pretending that vaccines are not good.

0:05:14

They are good and the benefits of them far, far outweigh the risks. But if you're not discerning in where you're getting your information, then you could be led down a path that is not necessarily true. It's not really held up by the evidence in the research.

And as we think not just vaccines, all sorts of health issues and not just our kids, our personal health too, as we really try to get to the truth of things and not just what we see in here online from perhaps untrustworthy sources. Then there's no judgement there. The untrustworthy sources, a lot of times, they are wanting to help. Now if they're selling something, okay, all bets are off.

0:06:03

But when folks have an idea that maybe is countered to science it's because they oftentimes truly believe what they believe, even though it's not based on evidence and probably isn't true. But the fact of the matter is that their intentions are good, they're wanting to help other people. They want to also improve health outcomes.

But the difference is the way that we're saying we can improve health outcomes, is it based on evidence? Is there scientific evidence to support if this is true? Because that's really all that we have in terms of determining what's true and what's not true. That's the whole point of science is to try to figure that out.

What is the best approach then as we search for medical information online? How can we tell good sources from not so good sources? Who should we trust and how do we know that we can trust certain places? It's an important task and it's one that has sometimes lifelong consequences because decisions that we make now with regard to our health and our wellness can go along our whole lives and matter.

0:07:09

So, we're going to take this job seriously but we also plan to have a little fun along the way. My guests this week and I have three of them, they're all really good friends that I worked with literally on a weekly, sometimes daily basis, at least by email. So that's why we're going to have a little fun along the way because we all know each other so well. 

Dr. Dave Stukus, he's will be in the studio. He's a pediatric allergist and social media extraordinaire.

Diane Lang is our hospital's senior social media manager. She has years of experience plowing through health information online. 

And Katelyn Hanzel is a senior media relations specialist for our hospital. And since Nationwide Children's is one of the largest, and dare I say best, children's hospitals in the United States, we supply news and information to national news outlets all the time. And this is the information that ends up in news stories, on websites, and social media, in YouTube, in podcasts. 

0:08:06 

So Katelyn has a lot of insider information on the folks who cover pediatric topics really well, that are good sources of information for moms and dads to go to as you're looking for answers to your questions. The best of the best, that's what we want for our kids, right? 

So we'll get to my three amigos in the studio here shortly as we page Dr. Google and explore tips for finding the best information online. 

Before we get to them, I have a couple of quick housekeeping items. We are on social media. You can find PediaCast on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram. We share lots more than just the show and the episode, lots of health stories that relate to families and kids and pediatrics that we share through those social media channels every single day. Please do connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and you'll get lots more content even than we have here in the podcast.

Also, if there's a particular topic you want us to cover, it's easy to get in touch, just head over to pediacast.org and click on the Contact link.

0:09:06

Also, I want to remind you the information presented in every episode of our program is for general education purposes only. We do not diagnose medical conditions or formulate treatment plans for specific individuals. If you have a concern about your child's health, be sure to call your doctor and arrange a face-to-face interview and hands-on physical examination. Also, your use of this audio program is subject to the PediaCast Terms of Use Agreement which you can find at pediacast.org.

Let's take a quick break. We'll get our guests settled in the studio and then we'll be back to consider how to find the best medical information online. That's coming up right after this.

[Music]

0:10:15

Dr. Mike Patrick: Dr. Dave Stukus is a pediatric allergist at Nationwide Children's Hospital and an associate professor of pediatrics at the Ohio State University, College of Medicine. He's also a social media experts and Twitter guru. He teaches the class at Ohio State for medical students and residents that helps young doctors learn the basics of  healthcare communications in social media engagement. 

And he co-authored the book that will be released later this summer called Social Media for Medical Professionals, Strategies for Successfully Engaging in an Online World. Dr. Stukus is also a friend and frequent guest on PediaCast. 

So, let's give him a warm welcome back. Thanks for stopping by today.

Dr. Dave Stukus: Thank you, Dr. Mike. I'm thrilled to be here today.

Dr. Mike Patrick:  Really appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule. 

I'm also joined by Diane Lang. Diane is the senior social media manager for Nationwide Children's Hospital. She's a blogger and social media star with nearly 12,000 followers on her personal Twitter feed and engages with hundreds of thousands of folks through our hospital's various social media channels.

We appreciate Diane stopping by the studio. Thanks to you too for being here.

0:11:17

Diane Lang: Thank you. Thanks for calling me a star.

Dr. Mike Patrick: Yeah, you like that?

Diane Lang: Nice, like, yeah, thanks.

Dr. Mike Patrick: And last but not the least, none of you are least.  I think I'll be happy to be the least in this room. We have Katelyn Hanzel with us. Katelyn is a senior media relation specialist for Nationwide Children's, which means she works with local and national media, including newspapers, magazines, television and digital outlets as they strive to deliver top quality pediatric news and information to the public. She is also an interviewing experts as she coaches camera-shy doctors to effectively engage with the press. 

We're happy to have Katelyn in the studio, so thanks to you too for stopping by.

Katelyn Hanzel: Thanks so much for having me.

Dr. Mike Patrick: Absolutely. And we're all friends in this room. We work together on a fairly regular basis.

0:12:03 

I just want to have a conversation and I think the best place to start really is just sort of the description of what typical search looks line on the internet. Because not only are we either medical professionals or communications experts, we're also people. And we have our own medical things that happen in our family and there are things outside of our expertise that we search for. So what does it look like and anybody that wants to start?

Dr. Dave Stukus: One of the things that I learned a few years ago that completely changed my whole career was that the search terms that you put in to a commercial engine like Google or Yahoo!, if you put the same search terms for any medical professional into PubMed or if you look through peer-review journals, it's amazing to me the stark contrast in different information that you find. 

So I think that it's important to really think like our patients so that we can best see what they're encountering online. And I can tell you firsthand that it's a very deep rabbit hole of misinformation, a lot of misdirection and it's really, really challenging to tell good evidence-based information from non evidence-based information.

0:13:18

Katelyn Hanzel: Well, I think that if you haven't ever searched for that kind of information before, I think as a consumer myself and as someone who is immersed in healthcare, I know on my phone, I can go to Google Search and some of my trusted sources will come up first. Because they're frequently visited, I go to them often, I have kind of an established baseline of the sources that I'm able to check out and see. And so those will come up first.

I think that if you're a consumer and you're not necessarily looking for healthcare information all the time, I think it's really easy to say that, "Yeah, I will go to Google for the very first time and search some health info." And you might not get all those trusted source right at the very top.

Dr. Mike Patrick: Well, that is a really good point. So if I do a Google Search and you do the same Google Search, we're not going to get the same results, right?

Katelyn Hanzel: Right.

0:14:04

Dr. Mike Patrick: It's going to depend on what we've searched for before. Google is kind of watching through cookies websites that we're visiting, so they really serve up results that are unique for each person. And so like you said, if you don't have great sites where you're getting good information, you're going to get served up maybe some unsavory sites where you can find bad information.

Diane Lang: Sure. And Google is also serving you ads too based on your demographics. So yeah, everyone's going to get different results.

Dr. Mike Patrick: Just some numbers that I came up with before the show that I think are just amazing as we think about Americans using not only the internet, but also just social media to find answers to healthcare questions. This is no surprise, 70% of Americans use social media on a regular, almost daily basis. 80% of internet users search for answers to health-related questions online. 

So it makes sense that if most people are searching for health information, most people are using social media, you're probably going to get some of your healthcare information through social media. And in fact, 40% of us have made health decisions based on information that we find in social media.

0:15:12

And here's a number that really that just blows me away that 90% of 18 to 24-year-olds say that they trust information just automatically that shared by other users on social media. Like if it's on social media, at least they're going to consider that this could very well be true. 

And then, 40% use social media to cope with chronic conditions, incorporate diet and exercise, select new providers. Another 40% read consumer reviews about providers, clinics, hospitals, medicines, devices. 

Thirty-two percent, so a third of people stop and read health-related stories from people they know, but 30% also read health-related stories from strangers. These are things that interest people. They stop and read them and then a quarter of all people regularly click on links and images and health-related social media posts. So if we think about a quarter of Americans, that's 325 million people, so 80 million people every day looking at health stuff in social media.

0:16:11

Dr. Dave Stukus: I think it's really important for any healthcare professionals listening that it's not just the patients and parents who are looking for themselves or their children, but it's their friends and neighbors and relatives. And they're the ones who are coming across these very interesting ideas online, and they are actually the ones talking their ears. So, when we're in the office with them on a one-on-one encounter, it's not just what they found themselves but it's what they're hearing from everybody else.

Dr. Mike Patrick: And they may not even have thought, "Hey, this is a question that I have." But when you come across a story like this, then at least for me, then my interest is increased and as I start looking for more information about that story that I just saw.

Diane Lang: And I think it's important to differentiate and say it is okay for people to be looking to their friends and neighbors, if they're looking for a suggestion on a medical provider, perfectly fine. But when it comes to treating an illness or receiving a diagnosis, you really need to find the trusted resource.

0:17:06

Dr. Mike Patrick: Yeah, absolutely. So the way that folks typically engage healthcare information online is you may come across a story something in your social media feed. Or something is going on in your real life, or your kids or your family. And so you start Google searching and then going off on rabbit trails. 

But as you do that, let's think about what healthcare consumers need. Because if we know what folks need, then we might be able to devise kind of a different way to go about getting information online. What are some of the things you think that healthcare consumers need?

Katelyn Hanzel: Consumers, I guess, in my opinion, are looking for information that's going to meet them where they are, when they are. People want in today's society information that's going to get to them quickly and that's going to be succinct enough that they don't have to read three or four pages before they get the actual point of what they're trying to learn. 

They need above-the-fold information right away and they want it to be thorough. They want it to be trusted. They want it to tell them what they need to do next. And they don't want to have to go searching in a million different places.

0:18:19

Diane Lang: And I think it's important that the content be written in plain language, too. It's so important to remember that for the consumer audience, that it's easy for them to understand.

Katelyn Hanzel: Absolutely.

Dr. Dave Stukus: And I would add I really think people want to hear from the experts. They want to hear from us. And if we're not out there giving them the right information in a way that they understand, that is communicated effectively, that they can then digest and apply to their own self-management of health, they're going to look elsewhere. So that's another important thing to think about.

Dr. Mike Patrick: And I think there's an element of really if you're going to provide information for people online health related, you have to do it in a way that is easily consumable. 

0:19:02

Katelyn, you had mentioned that you want it to be easy to read and engage with and inviting. And Diane, you said easy to understand and in a language folks can understand. So really, we want stuff that's easy to consume and yet trustworthy and reliable, right?

And then, the other thing I think that parents really need is not only to be told that this is the information as we know it, but then a little more in "Then, how can we use that information to improve the health of myself, my family, my kids?" So just some practical information on how you can act on that knowledge. Or maybe the strength of the evidence isn't that great and there is no action but that's something that parents need to know.

Dr. Dave Stukus: And if you see spend any time online, you're going to see top 10 ways to fix X, Y, and Z or top 6 ways. There's just so much in the headlines and the stories that make it seem like it's black and white, but it's not. That's not what healthcare is. It's individual nuisances and certain pieces of somebody's anecdotal stories may or may not apply to somebody else. So we have to allow people to have that leeway and understand, "Okay, it's not black or white. It's not just I had to do it this way. There are options here."

0:20:15

Katelyn Hanzel: Well, I think a really important part of that I think… Dr. Stukus, you mentioned lists of the top 10 ways do things and you mentioned headlines. And I think it's so important for me to always impress upon people like don't just take a story based on the headline and not read the rest of it. I think sometimes it can be really easy because the news is so fast paced and you're trying to keep up with things that you can see a catchy headline and think, "Oh, okay. We'll I saw the story on X, Y, Z and it said this." But maybe you didn't necessarily read the entire thing and that detail is really important.

So while you want information that's consumable and easy to access and in plain language and where you are when you are, you also have to take that initiative to be thorough and not just take a list at face value or headline at face value, but to compare multiple other sources to really get the thorough breadth and depth of what you're trying to understand.

0:21:10

Diane Lang: And I think I think it's important for us to remember that patients are engaging in different ways now, especially with social media. So it's not unusual for you or for Dr. Stukus to engage with consumers right on a social media platform. 

We try to do that at least from the hospital's perspective, put information in, again, easily digestible forms and use things like Facebook Live to have interactions with our consumer audience. So they can ask questions in real time of our experts and our experts get to do what they really love to do, which is helping people.

Dr. Mike Patrick: At the end of the day, when any of us are looking for information online, we're really looking to improve health outcomes, improve our quality of life. And I think to someone who's not trained in medicine, it's really easy to look at two data points and that is what can I do and what is the outcome going to be. And this can be applied to so many different things. 

0:22:12

And one of the items that we're seeing like crazy in the news right now is the MMR vaccine and measles and anti-vax in this business. And from that perspective, folks who are worried about vaccines, they care about the health outcomes of their kids. They love their kids. They don't want their kids to be harmed or have autism. 

And so you look at two data points, one is MMR, one is something like autism. And then, it's easy to form a connection that may not be there. And those of us who are trained in medicine were really trained to look at the big picture, like all the data different points. And so, are there other things that could lead from  A to B?

So when you're getting information from a healthcare provider, someone who's been educated on these things, you're going to get more of that big picture story, right? And maybe not make associations that you feel are causative.

0:23:06

Dr. Dave Stukus: That speaks to a larger point of if you think overall science literacy, the ability for somebody to understand the scientific method, it's very low in the general population. Recent survey shows 16% of people think the earth is flat.

Dr. Mike Patrick: No.

Dr. Dave Stukus: Yes, and that's highest amongst millennials.

Katelyn Hanzel: Yeah, and can we just be clear that MMR vaccines do not cause autism?

Dr. Mike Patrick: Yeah, they do not.

[Laughter]

Dr. Mike Patrick: They do not cause autism. In fact, there was a new study from Denmark which is not in big pharma's pocket as a country, right? And so, this is from Denmark and 650,000 kids in the study and they found no relationship between MMR autism.

Dr. Dave Stukus: But the general public, if they don't have formal education, I think about as a physician, it took me years and I still struggle. I'm not a reviewer for peer review journals. I write and I author manuscripts. And I still struggle with some of the methodology in trying to understand this stuff. 

0:24:03

So to expect somebody in the lay public to know what this means, it's non-realistic expectation. This is where people get caught up in the pseudo-scientific explanations and the media headlines. They get all the studies wrong. And if you pay attention to this online, you'll see it everywhere especially, number one, of people thinking correlation is the same as causation and they're very different things.

Dr. Mike Patrick: And if you're looking for information and you just do a Google search, if you don't have a set of trusted sources, you're more likely to go down those rabbit holes into one thing causing another without looking at that big picture. 

So Dave, we've talked off-mike before and I want you to relay a story about Vitamin C.

Dr. Dave Stukus: Oh, the Vitamin C. Oh, yeah.

Dr. Mike Patrick: Yeah. This is one of those things where, okay, you think Vitamin C, you have a bad cold, take Vitamin C, you'll get better. Or you want to prevent a cold, take Vitamin C, you'll prevent the cold. That's like two data points. 

0:25:03

Dr. Dave Stukus: Yes. And so, it's rampant and this is a common plight. If you get sick, take it or take it to prevent. And I'm going to credit Paul Offit, the vaccine guru, for really spilling out the story in great detail. But this is originated from Linus Pauling, and Linus Pauling was a very prominent physician 50, 60 years ago who won the Noble Prize for major medical discovery. And then, later in his career, he kind of got interested in alternative therapies and he started looking at high mega-dose Vitamin C to treat everything from cancer to boost immune system and things like that.

Well, there's a couple of important points. One, he was very famous and prominent, so people believed what he had to say. Two, the studies that he did used very high dose given intravenously. Three, from those studies, it then get translated that Vitamin C will treat the common cold. That's not what we're shown whatsoever and if you look at recent med analysis that were done, it has no effect whatsoever, especially in the doses given orally by mouth. You just can't reach the concentration high enough. You basically pee out everything that your body doesn't use.

0:26:02

But I think that's just the fascinating tale of how people say, "Oh, this is a trusted physician. Let's look at this." But then, nobody really goes to the data to see what it actually showed.

Diane Lang: I wish you had talked to my mom back in 1982 because she put me on some mega-doses of Vitamin C to treat my asthma, as a matter of fact.

Dr. Dave Stukus: That's interesting. Can I relay one other little piece of information? 

Diane Lang: Sure.

Dr. Dave Stukus: If you walk outside in cold weather with wet hair, you will not get sick.

[Laughter]

Dr. Mike Patrick: No. Viruses, right? Viruses cause illness. 

Now, when it gets cold, we're inside more and there's more people in the same room, you're in closer contact with one another. We share viruses, so we do see a lot more illness in the winter but it's not because of the weather. It's because of viruses. 

And again, that's another thing where there's the two data points. It's cold outside. I'm sick more often. They must be related to one another and they are but it's not a direct cause. There's other data points to look at. And that's really where once you've been trained in science, you start thinking about all these different variables a little more.

0:27:05

So with this sort of needs in mind and I guess just to sort of sum them up, we want something that's going to be easy to consume, that maybe even have elements of a story related to them, something that's inviting to look up. Because if you just see a page, a dense page of text that's not broken up, you may get a few sentences in and you're going to fade away and move on to something else.

Good information is going to be broken up, easy to consume, hold your interests. It does use plain language, but still doesn't dumb down the science because we want people to understand why we think what we think or why things work but just in a way that they can grasp. And then, of course, evidence-based, trustworthy, reliable. And then, can I make a good decision on it? 

What would then rather than doing a Google Search? And I call that sort of hunter-gatherer form of getting healthcare information online when you just go out and you sort of haphazardly looking and if you come across something, then read it. How can we move from being a hunter-gatherer to being more of an agricultural society in terms of our looking for our healthcare information?

0:28:09

Katelyn Hanzel: I'm coming at this candidly and admittedly from the millennial standpoint. And a lot of students that I get the chance to speak with, I give them the same advice also. Take advantage of the social media that you're on. Pay attention to what people are following and start following the people who are on the beat that you trust. 

And I guess what I mean by that is, for example, I follow medical reporters. I follow people who are reporting on that science. I'm following physicians. I follow Dr. Mike, I follow Dr. Stukus. I follow those people who are putting out that evidence-based information and who are reporting that evidence-based information in a way that is easily digestible.

Using your social media to its advantage and being able to see, okay, what's being said like grand scale but then what are these key people that I trust saying about that issue and where they getting their data from?

0:29:08

Dr. Mike Patrick: If you had a particular question, would it be possible to search the people you follow to see if they have anything to say about that particular item? Is that something that can be done in social media?

Diane Lang: Yeah, absolutely. You can use keywords for searching and find lots of information about lots of different topics. Dr. Stukus's approach, using hashtags.

Katelyn Hanzel: Well, I think like the super bitesize way, if you want instruction, up in your Twitter search bar, you can search. I always start with the handle, so @doctormike and then I follow that…

Diane Lang: @pediacast.

Dr. Mike Patrick: @pediacast.

Katelyn Hanzel: @pediacast, and I follow that with the keyword, so @pediacast flu or @pediacast social media. And then, all of the tweets that he has put out about social media will be the things that pop up in your feed.

0:30:01

Dr. Mike Patrick: So, the people you trust online, that's one field of your agricultural society rather than being a hunter-gatherer. What are some others?

Diane Lang: Another option at least on Twitter, instead of just using that search bar is to create list of people who you follow. Create a list of your trusted resources and then use that search capability from within that group.

Dr. Mike Patrick: And follow that feed from time to time and you'll discover some interesting stuff you wouldn't have otherwise. 

Dr. Dave Stukus: At some point, individuals have to take it upon himself to gain a better understanding of science literacy. And there's more and more journalism classes being taught in high schools and really how to think through trust resources and how to answer a question. And I think that has to take place on some level. 

But for those who don't show that initiative, they don't even know that they need to do that, that's where we come in to play. And when we have the one-on-one encounters in the office setting, we address it and we say, "Listen, I'm sure you're going online looking for information. I  want to mention that be careful what you found out there because not all of that is evidence-based, and you may find some misinformation that may affect your decision making. If you ever come across anything that you're questioning, call me. That's why I'm here."

0:31:11

And I think as medical professionals, if we can anticipate that, knowing that they're going online whether we agree with it or not or like it or not, we'll bring it up and say, "Listen, I'm here for you if you come across anything."

Dr. Mike Patrick: Is that something you bring up even if the parents didn't say, "Hey, I found this online." Just proactively, do you talk to your patients about that?

Dr. Dave Stukus: Every single visit.

Dr. Mike Patrick: That's really good.

Diane Lang: Well, as a parent, I can tell you that before I worked here, I would search Dr. Google and find all kinds… I was always going to die. My children were always going to die, right? Always, it was always the worst case scenario. Part of working here is, and I'm not saying this as a marketer either, even though I am one. But having evidence-based resources right at my fingertips every single day from people I know, people I trust, people I know are experts, so I don't even use Google anymore. I use our website and just search our website for content.

0:32:11

Dr. Dave Stukus: And I would say one other piece. As medical professionals, we often get frustrated because we want to address our things. Or we see maybe more concerning features of somebody's health we want to address and they have all this misinformation or other ideas and things like that. But for all the physicians who are listening, I think everybody can relate. Think back to when you're first-year medical student, how many times did you diagnose yourself with having a condition? And we all are hypochondriacs at some point. I think I had cancer 27 times during our first year. 

But then, apply that and relate that to that's what our patients are going through. Because they're looking online, they're reading these things, and say, "Oh my gosh, yes, I think I have that. I think I have this. Maybe I should try this treatment."

Dr. Mike Patrick: My wife, before we have our daughter, she worked in ICU here at Nationwide Children's Hospital that only took care of babies and most of them had congenital birth defects and were in need of surgery.

0:33:07

And she was so afraid that our daughter was going to have a birth defect because that was her world. That's what she saw over and over and over again. And I think that to some degree is I think you're exactly right, that that's what happens when you come across that same information over and over and over. 

And so, in the anti-vax world, if you are surrounding yourselves with, "Oh, aluminum causes the problem. Formaldehyde causes the problem," even though we know that they don't and that they're there for a purpose. Even thimerosal which got everyone upset, "Oh, it's a form of mercury in the vaccine." It was not causing a problem, but when you see that over and over and over and over again, you really do start to buy into it.

Dr. Dave Stukus: And that leads to a prevailing theme online is confirmation bias. With the scientific method, it's, "I have a question. I'm going to go about systematic trying to answer that and we'll see what we find." While with confirmation bias, people already have assumptions and they say, "Oh, mercury is bad for me. I'm going to go online and try to find resources that say that mercury and vaccines is causing poor health effects." And you will find that. You will find that everywhere. It's really the reversed way of going about trying to answer question.

0:34:13

Dr. Mike Patrick: I think as a medical community that we've sort of done a disservice to all of these when we took the thimerosal out of vaccines because it was not causing a problem. There was no evidence that there was any issue with it whatsoever. But it was a barrier and so parents were saying, "Hey, I'm not going to give my kids vaccines because it has mercury in it." 

So they took it out and, of course, then we have to go to single-dose vials which cause more money and use more resources in terms of packaging and the environment and all that. But because we took it out, that confirmed, "Oh, it was really a problem. They had to take it out."

Dr. Dave Stukus: And the cherry-picking of data and prior decisions and expert panels and guidelines, it's everywhere. You can always find something to supports your viewpoint.

Katelyn Hanzel: Well, I think for confirmation biases really interesting to me. And I think going back to that set of trusted sources, I think it's really important that while you have those trusted sources, that you vary your sources. 

0:35:11

So if you have your set, one, two, three, four, five sources that you know, "I trust them, I use them regularly, I check their content, I follow them like I totally trust what they're reporting on or what they're saying," always follow that up with, "Here are one, two, three, four, five that I haven't looked at in awhile or that report on something in a different way than my top five." 

And make sure they're still valid and trusted but figure out a good mix of what you're following and maybe what you're not following so you're getting the whole picture. So, you're not just following stories or following information that confirms your assumptions but also challenges those assumptions and allows you to educate yourself in a sense.

Diane Lang: And along those lines, I don't want to discount the communities that are out there, the individuals, even the bloggers. I don't want to say anything bad about bloggers because I am one, but every blogger has an opinion. And I think those communities do serve a purpose.

0:36:13 

They are good support for a lot of people especially with children who have medical conditions. Get information from them but back it up. Back it up with something that's evidence-based and go find a resource from an expert.

Dr. Dave Stukus: I'd actually like to put Diane in the spot for a second. Could you just comment on the echo chamber effect that happens in the social media circles? And I agree with you, there's absolute benefit to it but maybe some of the harm as well.

Diane Lang: Yeah, there's no doubt that there's harm just like what Dr. Mike was talking about, right? So mercury or vaccines and autism, it does become kind of a hive mentality where everyone starts to believe it because they hear it so many times. We know that when someone seen  something six times in their social media feed, they click on it, they believe it and that's not necessarily the case. People absolutely need to back up the information that they're finding in those groups with evidence-based information.

0:37:19

Dr. Mike Patrick: So that puts us right back in center of where are some great trusted resources. And I want to talk about first just big categories. So we're going to share what our personal favorite trusted resources are and in the Show Notes today over at pediacast.org for this Episode 425, there's going to be a huge list of trusted resources that you can use to get a good information. 

But just in terms of general categories, I kind of divided this up in my head into local resources, sort of regional, national, and then government resources. Local resources are a great place to start, right? What are some local resources that folks could tap in to?

Diane Lang: nationwidechildrens.org, of course.

[Laughter]

0:38:01

Dr. Dave Stukus: I agree 100%.

Dr. Mike Patrick: Yeah, absolutely. We have great information. But even beyond pediatrics, I think one good place is your primary care doctor. Your primary care doctor may be someone who's very interested in online education and social media. They may have a fantastic website. They may have a blog. They probably have a social media feed. And so a wonderful trusted resource is going to be your primary care provider.

But if they're not there, your local hospitals. Of course, we love people to come here at Nationwide Children's but you're going to want to find local resources. If you're in Texas, you're in Arizona, check out your local children's hospitals and find out what information that they have. If you can't find it there, you can come to us. Hopefully we have it.

Diane Lang: We do.

[Laughter]

Dr. Mike Patrick: Any other local stuff?

Katelyn Hanzel: All of your local health institutions, so your hospitals, your primary care physician, your local health department, your regional health department because they're going to have up-to-date information on all the stuff that's going on day to day. They're going to be up to the minute and really putting information out there that the public as a whole needs to know. I would start there honestly.

0:39:16

Dr. Mike Patrick: Yeah, and the Health Department is great because you can  find out what warnings there are for your particular area, if there's been food-borne illnesses associated with certain places. So yeah, definitely good. 

And then as we kind of move out, you talk about regional health department or state health departments. And then, from a national standpoint, and I'm not talking news media, just in terms of just good general overall information, that will have like encyclopedia of information.

Dr. Dave Stukus: If you're looking for medical information, I think the professional organizations are amazing. In the pediatric world, the American Academy of Pediatric does an outstanding job, not only on their website but with their social media channels. And then, whatever specialty you're interested in.

0:40:00

In my world of allergy and immunology, there's two main organizations, the American Academy and American College of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology and they both have robust online resources that are valid and trusted. And they're written by the experts, so you can trust them. 

And then I'll just throw a pitch out for, I think the advocacy organizations are fantastic as well because they really have the patients in mind, but they have medical advisors and the vast majority of them have trusted information as well.

Dr. Mike Patrick: It's kind of like a combination between a trusted resource and that social media community feel or like the blogger feel with this advocacy sites because they can center around particular disease, process, body system. There are all sorts of them out there.

Diane Lang: Yeah, and they usually offer resources and ways that you can advocate as well. 

Dr. Mike Patrick: Yeah, other professional societies, the American Medical Association, the American Dental Association, just whatever it is you're interested in. Do a Google Search for what you want. Find the professional society that deals with that body system and then go to that site and take a peek, yeah. 

And then, government, there's great government websites really for getting information.

0:41:11

Dr. Dave Stukus: I think the Centers for Disease Control is amazing. They have robust library online and they do a really great job of updating the public in regards to food-borne illnesses on the national level or influenza updates and things like that.

Dr. Mike Patrick: And the National Institute of Health. You search their website, you'll find anything that you want information about because then they're connected to all the other government sites and the Food and Drug Administration. 

So there is kind of a feeling you get online of distrust with government agencies. Should that be a thing?

Dr. Dave Stukus: Well, if you search any item online in regards to health information, you will find a conspiracy theory surrounding that. That's a prevalent theme in this online communities. And I think it's important for healthcare professionals to be aware of it, so we can address this when we have one-on-one encounters, even address it online through your own social media presence. But no, there's no doubt that the conspiracy theories are out there.

0:42:09

Diane Lang: Yeah, we see a lot of that from our consumer audiences from time to time. Having those government websites, having those data points that I can use to go back and say, "Here is the evidence," is very, very important in my line of work, for sure.

Dr. Mike Patrick: I just want to be a trusted voice. I know I am for a lot of the people in the PediaCast audience because there's so many folks who have listened to these programs over the years. And I can tell you that I do trust the CDC and the FDA, the National Institute of Health. And I don't think that there's significant lobbying influence on the educational information that they put out or conspiracy theories. These are really good trusted source of information. 

And I get a lot of my information from those places because they are evidence-based. They're career scientists who have a passion for tinkering and figuring things out and trying to get to the truth and looking at all those data points.

0:43:08

I think it's also important, you may find a trusted site that really is relatable to you. It's not one of the ones that we've mentioned but how do you vet that this could be a trusted site? And I think one is do they have medical advisors that's putting out? Is it the medical professional themselves who's putting up the information? Sort of who's behind the curtain? 

And if it's lay persons, are they at least affiliated with some sort of medical advising component? I think that would be an important thing. Do they have authority in this area in terms of their training and experience and expertise? Do you explain why you're saying what you're saying? Where are you getting your information from? What are the sources? Is this trustworthy? 

And I would say that vetting with those kind of questions would apply to websites, social media, accounts, blog post, podcasts. You really want to make sure you're getting your information from a trusted, reliable, authoritative source.

0:44:07

Katelyn Hanzel: Well, as a consumer, it is a 100% your prerogative to question your sources and to question where you're getting your information. So, post that comment and say, "Can I see the data that's backing up the stat? Or just clarify for me where you're getting this information because I'm interested in engaging with it but I want to make sure it's legit." I think that you can take control of the information that you're consuming by always having that questioning attitude a little bit.

Diane Lang: And I just want to thank both of you for being sources of truth on social media for our consumers, for our peer audiences. You make my job easier. You have both helped me as a parent find information that I needed just solely because of your social media presences. Thank you.

Dr. Mike Patrick: That is so sweet.

Dr. Dave Stukus: It is. Thank you.

Dr. Mike Patrick: That's very nice.

0:45:00

Dr. Dave Stukus: And we've learned a lot from you as well.

Diane Lang: Oh, thanks.

Dr. Dave Stukus: Not from Katelyn though, she's…

[Laughter]

Katelyn Hanzel: Thank you so much.

Dr. Mike Patrick: No, no, no. I've learned a lot from Katelyn.

Dr. Dave Stukus: If I get one thing, we talked about ways to find good sources but there's some red flags, I think you're pretty apparent once you noticed them. By definition, any site or social media account, it is also trying to disseminating information but it's also selling you something, a product, their services. By definition, that's a conflict of interest. So you have to take it with a grain of salt. 

Yeah, it may actually be a trusted information, but more often than not, it isn't. They're trying to sway your decision making, so I think that's something that really needs to be put out there as well.

Dr. Mike Patrick: In an area where that has really become big is in home testing. People have home test kits for everything and some of the information you get to those sites or the reliability of the tests that's just aren't that great. 

Dr. Dave Stukus: I agree 1,000%.

Diane Lang: We have blog post about that.

Dr. Mike Patrick: There's a reason that medical laboratories, there's oversight of them and you want to make sure that these are good tests and not bad ones. 

And medical tests are going to be expensive. If you can buy it at your cost and get it shipped to your home, it's probably not going to be that reliable.

0:46:15

Okay, so what are some barriers to doing this well? The idea here is instead of just doing Google search, we want to have some trusted resources that when we have a medical question, when we come across something in our social media feeds, or we have an illness, our kids diagnosed with something, we want to have trusted sites that we go to for information. But what are some of the barriers that keep people from doing that?

Katelyn Hanzel: I think occasionally, not occasionally, I think it takes time to build your set every sources that you really trust. It absolutely takes time to visit multiple sites and talk to multiple people and then sussed out for yourself. Okay, I trust this because of X, Y, Z and I don't trust this because of A, B, C. The time that it take, you do have to put a little work in because you've got to do the reading and you've got to do that clicking and the asking and really taking the time is I think kind of labor intensive sometimes.

0:47:12

Diane Lang: I think it's important for the medical professionals to remember how people are consuming the information, too. So think mobile, think 80% of people are looking at things on their phone. So having easily digestible short form, put it into short sentences, plain language. I think those are barriers for a lot of our community, understanding the content on maybe a middle grade level.

Dr. Mike Patrick: Yeah, that's great. Especially when you're first trying to find these resources that you can understand that's written in plain language, that's easy to consume, it's almost like trying to find a needle in a haystack, right? There's just so many bad sources out there. It can be difficult but if you vet them appropriately. Keep a bookmark to the Show Notes page for this episode because we're going to have some great resources that you can use.

0:48:09

Another barrier I think is emotions. If you're reading something and it makes you sad or anxious or angry, if you start to feel emotion, I think you're more likely then to start buying in and reading more and trying to find other sources that are saying the same thing. But maybe it's best to wait for the emotion to past and do a search on a particular topic. 

And I know I keep going to the anti-vax thing, but it's so big right now and we're seeing some big measles outbreaks, that you do get emotional when you read parent testimonials and stories. And so rather than looking at the CDC to see what they have to say vaccines, you start Google searching ad looking for more people who've had similar problems because your emotions starts to… And that's true for all of us. Once your emotions are involved, you don't necessarily think rationally anymore.

0:49:05

Dr. Dave Stukus: I agree and I think there's two points I want to make on that real fast. One is the idea of this recency bias. In my world, it's people with peanut allergy. They can very safely fly on commercial airlines and they'll be fine. Airborne peanut rarely, if ever, causes any reactions especially severe reactions. We can educate people regarding that.

But if you read the newspaper headlines, every few months, you read about people having reactions on airplanes whether that was actually vetted or real or not. If you read the headline, automatically people have the tendency to elevate their risk. And they think that, "I've been living with this for 10 years but now all of a sudden because I read the newspaper headlines, it impacts me," and you get that emotional response.

And then, the second point is I think it's really helpful to know your enemy and our enemy is the non evidence-based providers out there. They're trying to sell their wares and know some of the tactics that they use. So we can use that to our advantage. And I think we can try to relate to individual patients in the general public in a much better fashion than we traditionally have. And we can use stories and use emotions and use catchy headlines to grab their attention, bring them in and then provide evidence-based information that's a value to them.

0:50:14

Katelyn Hanzel: When I think this is PediaCast, so we've got a lot of parents listening. Emotion is such a huge motivator to everything whether you're a parent or not. And every parent wants to do what's absolutely best for their child or their teen. And that's their heart and soul is how they're taking care of their kids. 

I think emotions can be such a huge motivator when you're looking for medical information because you get fired up and you want to know what's going to be best for your child. And I think being able to take that emotion and then consult your PCP and say, "I am fired up about this. How can I manage this? What are my next steps? How do I move forward in a way that is educated and thorough and safe?" 

So I think using those emotions as a motivator in a healthy way, you can get really great results that way if you're using your trusted sources and using your emotions positively.

0:51:13

Dr. Mike Patrick: Just be aware of others who are also fired up because when you get together, then you may go up with the wrong direction. Or pull the group toward the right direction and good resources. You can still be passionate and fired up about it and seek the truth.

Dr. Dave Stukus: Absolutely.

Dr. Mike Patrick:  Another barrier I think is friends and family. When it's a stranger on the internet, it's easy to say, "No, that's not right. This is how it is." or "This is what my sources say and this is why I trust my sources." But when it's family telling you not to vaccinate your kids, that becomes more difficult and more challenging.

Dr. Dave Stukus: I agree and we spoke about this earlier. And I think it's, boy, it is such a tough place to navigate especially when you have the emotional ties and the personal connections. It's important to go to your personal physician. I think we need to really hammer that home for anybody listening that's looking online for information. Your personal physician or your child's pediatrician, they know the nuances and important aspects and details of your medical history that really pertain to the decision-making process. So they are the trusted source.

0:52:20

Diane Lang: Agreed and that's what I was saying earlier that if you're looking to find healthcare provider, get an opinion about a service in your local community, friends and family are great. Trust their opinions on things like that but when it comes to medical care, absolutely not. Consult your doctor.

Dr. Mike Patrick: And we all have family members who are passionate about one thing or another but it's okay to be our own person in healthy relationships say, "Hey, we can disagree on this. And we don't have to argue about it or not like one another," but we can all search after our own answers, figure out things on our own or form our own opinions. But I know that's a big barrier for a lot of people when you have that pressure within your family.

0:53:05

All right. I hinted it this the entire program that we're going to talk about some of our own personal go-to sites and channels for great medical information so that when you have a question or you come across something, where do you go rather than do a Google search, search the sites. What are some of our favorites? Dave, start with you.

Dr. Dave Stukus: I always use the American Academy and American College of Allergy, Asthma, and Immunology, and then the advocacy organizations including FARE, which is Food Allergy Research Education, AAFA, the Asthma and Allergy Foundation of America. There's the Allergy and Asthma Network as well. They're great sites.

Dr. Mike Patrick: And we'll put links to all of these things in the Show Notes so folks can find them pretty easily. Katelyn, what are yours?

Katelyn Hanzel: I follow all of my own personal providers on social. That's really important to me and being able to follow all of my local institutions to find out what's going on in my community. So I always tell people like follow who's around you, follow the institutions that are around you. 

0:54:04

I am admittedly coming from the place of media relations, right? So some of my info, I really like how vox.com reports their health coverage. I think they do a really good job with it. And I think your medical reporters like the Columbus Dispatch, The New York Times, Washington Post, all of those, if you can find a dedicated medical reporter, I think those specific outlets do a pretty good job overall of unbiased and honest and well-rounded evidence-based info.

Diane Lang: On a day to day basis, I would definitely say nationwidechildrens.org. I'm really not just saying that as a marketer but it is because I know the people who write the content and I trust them. And I know that it's all fact-based. Also, American Academy of Pediatrics for sure and social media channels. I actually keep an eye on Twitter and Facebook and see what's trending and what people are talking about. And then, I go from there to maybe CDC and look at what they have to say about it.

0:55:09

Dr. Mike Patrick: I'll add quite a few to the mix here and I do a lot of research for the podcasts and for blog posts that I write. I don't know everything about everything.

Diane Lang: What?

[Laughter]

Dr. Mike Patrick: This is what separates the good doctors from the bad doctors. You have to know what you don't know. And you have to know where to get the answers when you don't know something. Because you can't know everything about everything but knowing how to find the answer's really what's important. 

And so you mentioned the American Academy of Pediatrics, healthychildren.org is their go-to site for parent information. Wonderful articles that are written there. I know a lot of the people who write those articles and they're really trustworthy stuff. 

Our 700 Children's Blog here at Nationwide Children's is a wonderful resource. 

We also have a resource called Helping Hands and these are basically patient hands-out on a ton of diseases and conditions and injuries and all sorts of stuff. And there's a website for those. I'll put a link to that in the Show Notes so you can find those. These are great for consumers but also if you are a practicing physician, you can use those Helping Hands in your practice. Those are great.

0:56:13

Kidshealth.org from Nemours is wonderful. It have been around for a long time, great content. 

Especially in adult medicine, Mayo Clinic has a wonderful health education library that is full of fantastic, easy-to-read and consumed information. I highly recommend that.

The US Department of Health and Human Services. We talked about the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the National Institutes of Health, and the Food and Drug Administration. 

You mentioned Vox, Katelyn, also HealthLine is another good one. Medical News today is really evidence-based articles, HealthDay, NPR Health News, New York Times Health and Wellness sites, all fantastic resources. And I'll put links to all of these in the Show Notes.

Not only to their websites but to a lot of their Twitter feeds too because if you follow them on Twitter, you're going to get good information on your feed on a daily basis. 

0:57:06 

And so those will be great sources to follow. Like I said, I'll put all the links to all of these things in the Show Notes. There's going to be a big long list, so be sure to check that out and maybe put it up in your favorites, up in your bar, up on top of your web browsers what I'm trying to say so you can go to that particular page with all those resources.

So, let's then make a case for involvement by as many medical professionals as possible putting good evidence-based easily consumable information online. Why is that important, Dave?

Dr. Dave Stukus: Because if we don't do it, other people will.

Dr. Mike Patrick: And then it won't be as good.

Dr. Dave Stukus: Yeah. This is the world we live in. We have to accept that and we have to understand it and we have to be proactive and I really feel that's part of our job now. And for many of us, this is a calling. It's our job, we don't clock out when it's 5:00. This is a calling and as part of our calling, we really want to try to help people and we want to give them the right information to help them make decisions.

0:58:07

Diane Lang: And we know that people are looking for healthcare information online. We did a local consumer survey a few years ago that showed 85% of the people in our area look for healthcare information online. So we know they're doing it. They're using Dr. Google. So having that trusted resource is so important.

Dr. Mike Patrick: And you can make a big impact and you don't have to have… We talked, Dave, you have 16,000 Twitter followers. Diane, you have 12,000 Twitter followers. You don't need even big numbers like that. If you reach a thousand people with a message and you can do that easily. In Facebook, you have a good timely message that you just share a story, you can easily be seen by a thousand people. And for every thousand people, that translates into eight weeks of clinical practice. 

0:58:54 

For me as a pediatrician, telling people about safe sleep, ABCs of safe sleep, babies should be alone on their back in a crib to prevent SIDS. And if I give that message out as a blog post and it's seen by thousand people, that's the same if I tell that message to everybody I came across with the baby, it would take me months. That one blog post can just have a huge impact. And so, I think medical providers should understand, it doesn't have to be huge numbers.

Diane Lang: And it doesn't have to be long form content either. You can put something like ABCs of safe sleep in an infographic or take a picture of a safe sleep environment and just share the picture, that alone can have such a huge impact on our community.

Dr. Mike Patrick: If you are healthcare provider and you are interested in just learning how can I get involved in this, how can I in a professional way can be effective and yet be efficient and conscious of my time and my work life balance, how can I get involve in social media but not let it overtake my life, we are actually going to have a conference here at Nationwide Children's for healthcare providers and also for marketing professionals who will learn just best practices for making a difference online. It's called Communicating Medicine: Harnessing the Power of Social Media and Healthcare, that's the name of it. June 14th here in Columbus, Ohio and I'm going to put a link to it in the Show Notes so you can get to the registration page if you're interested in coming to Columbus for a weekend.

1:00:21

Dr. Dave Stukus: We're really excited to have this. And Mike and I are proud to serve as co-chairs with Katelyn and Diane on our planning committee and they're fantastic. There's so much more that we have to discuss so we can't do on a one-hour PediaCast. And we're going to talk about best strategies, really practical tips about how people can get involved, engage with our audience and really grow their platform. And I'm really excited about it. I hope that we have a ton of people there. 

Dr. Mike Patrick: And if you come to Columbus in June, you got the Columbus Zoo, you can go to the Short North. There's all the kind of fun stuff that you can do here in COSI. Take your kids to COSI, lots of fun stuff. Just make a weekend out of it, come to Central Ohio and attend our conference. Again, June 14th is the date and it's going to be great. 

1:01:08 

A hands-on workshops, if you're interested in interviewing for your local media, just how to do interviews as well, how to write blogpost, how to just effectively engage in social media, how to handle attacks on your practice if that would happen. Just lots and lots of good information for folks. And again, the name of the conference is Communicating Medicine: Harnessing the Power of Social Media in Healthcare. 

We also have a series of podcasts on healthcare communications and social media for healthcare professionals. And I'll put a link to those in the Show Notes as well. 

And then I kind of tease this at the beginning of the program coming later in the summer, a book that we have coming out that's actually Dave and I both are authors on, Social Media for Medical Professionals: Strategies for Successfully Engaging in an Online World. And Diane, you wrote a chapter in that textbook as well.

1:02:00

Diane Lang: I did.

Dr. Mike Patrick: I'll have more on that when we get closer to the release date. Lots of resources for you in the Show Notes. Be sure to check that out over at pediacast.org, Episode 425.

All right. Well, we are at the limits of our time and I just want to thank our guests again today, Dr. Dave Stukus, pediatric allergist and Twitter guru. You can find him at @AllergyKidsDot. Diane Lang @MomoFali?

Diane Lang: That's correct.

Dr. Mike Patrick: And we'll put links to that so you can find both of them in the Twitter universe. Katelyn, I couldn't find you on Twitter. Are you on Twitter?

Katelyn Hanzel: I am on Twitter. I am KatelynWriter.

Dr. Mike Patrick: Okay, I will put that. I just followed you. Oh, no, it was Instagram.

Katelyn Hanzel: You did just follow  me.

Dr. Mike Patrick: That was Instagram, I think.

Katelyn Hanzel: Oh, it was.

Dr. Mike Patrick: Yeah, I'll find you on Twitter and then we'll put a link so others can follow you, too. And Diane is our senior social media manager. Katelyn, senior media relations specialist. Thanks once again to all of you for stopping by today.

Diane Lang: Thank you.

Katelyn Hanzel: Thank you so much.

Dr. Dave Stukus: Thank you.

[Music]

1:03:30

Dr. Mike Patrick: We are back with just enough time to say thanks once again to all of you for taking time out of your day and making PediaCast a part of it. I really do appreciate that. Also thanks to our guest this week, Dr. Dave Stukus, pediatric allergist and Twitter guru. You can find them @AllergyKidsDoc on Twitter. Diane Lang is @MomoFali on Twitter. She is senior social media manager for Nationwide Children's Hospital. And Katelyn Hanzel @KatelynWriter. I just learned that today. She is senior media relations specialist for our hospital. And I'll put links to other Twitters in the Show Notes so you can find them easily. They are great, trusted content sources for you.

1:04:11

Don't forget, you can find PediaCast in all sorts of places. We are in the Apple podcast app, iTunes, Google Play, iHeartRadio, Spotify, most mobile podcast apps. In other words, wherever you find podcasts, you should be able to find  PediaCast. If there's some place that we're not, please let me know and we'll get the show added to their content.

We also have a landing site, pediacast.org. You'll find our entire archive of past programs, show notes for each episode with links and resources, written transcripts of the episodes if you'd rather read than listen. We have our Terms of Use Agreement and our Contact page so that you can ask questions of your own or suggest a topic for us to cover.

We're also part of the Parents on Demand Network. You'll find us at parentsondemand.com. it's a collection of podcasts for moms and dads. And it includes PediaCast, along with many other terrific podcasts for parents. One example of that is the Dad Experience podcasts, with your hosts Adam and Mike. Adam is a high school band teacher with a toddler at home and Mike has two slightly older kids and works with the program for students with special needs.

1:05:16

And as you know, many parenting podcasts target moms which it's great, it's helpful, it's supportive but it's also nice to hear about parenting and family and life from the father's perspective. And this is not only true for other dads but I think moms like to hear what fathers are thinking too. So be sure to check out this highly informative and entertaining dad experience podcast. 

They do have a terrific line-up of shows. Some recent one is foster care, a conversation with foster dad and expert, Dr. John DeGarmo. "Have You Grown as a Dad?" which is a conversation with Justin Mcclure of YouTube fame. "What Do You Do with Your Kids during the Cold Winter Months" What are some good indoor activities and things you can do indoors when it's really cold outside or maybe bundle up and do some fun outdoor stuff, too?

1:06:06

"How Do We Monitor Our Kid's Online Content and Games?" "What Does Mom Think of Dad Life?" And that's an episode where they're joined by their wives. "And What is Your Parenting Style?" Some great content from them. Again, it's the Dad Experience podcast. I'll put a link to it on the Show Notes of this Episode 425 over at pediacast.org.

Don't forget reviews are always very helpful. We all have limited time and you want to really get the most bang for your buck. No bucks involved with PediaCast. It's free but hopefully, we're giving you great evidence-based information. That's our passion. And if you could just leave us a review and let other parents know that as well that this is a good source of trusted information for them, then they'll be more likely to listen. And then we can get the word out and improve health outcomes and quality of life for lots more kids. Please do consider leaving a review wherever it is that you listen to podcast.

1:07:00 

We're also on social media, Facebook and Twitter, Instagram and we share lots more on those places than just this episode. We try to get good pediatric medical related content, evidence-based, trustworthy sources in your feeds on Facebook, Twitter. And the Instagram is a little bit more personal, sort of a look in the studio and what's going on in our lives. But we really appreciate when you connect with us there and we have great, great content.

Don't forget to let others in your personal sphere of influence know about the program. Your family, friends, neighbors, co-workers, babysitters, anyone who has kids or takes care of kids and that include your child's pediatric healthcare provider. 

While you have their ear, let them know we have a program for them as well. It's called PediaCast CME. Similar to this program, we turn the science a couple notches and offer free Category 1 Continuing Medical Education Credit. Your doctor all know what that is for those who listen.

And shows and details are available at the landing site for that program, pediacastcme.org. That show is also on Apple podcast, iTunes, Google Play, iHeartRadio, Spotify, and most mobile podcast apps. Simply search for PediaCast CME.

1:08:12

Most recently we talked about neonatal abstinence syndrome. We have a CME activity on that and also sports nutrition and low energy availability. It used to be called the female athlete triad, so we talked all about that in a couple of the most recent episodes of PediaCast CME.

All right, thanks once again for stopping by. And until next time, this is Dr. Mike saying stay safe, stay healthy, and stay involved with your kids. So long, everybody.

[Music]

Announcer 2: This program is a production of Nationwide Children's. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time on PediaCast.

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