Strategies for Talking with Kids about Body Safety and Autonomy – PediaCast 586

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Show Notes

Description

Diane Lampkins visits the studio as we consider strategies for talking to children about body safety and autonomy. When and how should we begin these difficult conversations? And what language do we use so that kids can understand? Tune in to find out!

Topics

Child Sexual Abuse
Body Safety
Autonomy
Consent

Guest

Diane Lampkins
Training and Prevention Coordinator
The Center for Family Safety and Healing
Nationwide Children’s Hospital

Links

The Center for Family Safety and Healing at Nationwide Children’s Hospital
Child Assessment Center at Nationwide Children’s
My Body Belongs to Me (Book)
My Body: What I Say Goes (Book)
The Care and Keeping of You: The Body Book for Younger Girls
The Care and Keeping of You: The Body Book for Older Girls

Episode Transcript

[Dr Mike Patrick]
This episode of PediaCast is brought to you by the Center for Family Safety and Healing at Nationwide Children's Hospital. 

Hello, everyone, and welcome once again to PediaCast. We are a pediatric podcast for moms and dads.

This is Dr. Mike coming to you from the campus of Nationwide Children's Hospital. We're in Columbus, Ohio. It's episode 586.

We're calling this one strategies for talking with kids about body safety and autonomy. I want to welcome all of you to the program. So, we have a really, really, really important topic for you today.

And it's one that concerns all parents of children. And in particular, we're going to be talking about young children, but this is an important topic really for all of our kids, regardless of their age, because keeping our kids safe, and that includes physical safety and emotional safety, of course, but it also includes sexual safety. And sometimes we let that slide away a little bit and we don't necessarily put as much emphasis on sexual safety with our kids as we do physical and even emotional safety.

And some of that has to do with our own comfort as parents in talking about these things with our children, but it is an important thing to talk about. And it starts with open communication at a really young age. And we're going to explore strategies for talking with kids about uncomfortable things as we move forward, because this really is the best way that parents can keep their children safe from sexual abuse is to talk about it and to talk about what's appropriate and what's not appropriate and not keeping secrets and when and where and who to disclose these things to. It's all important, but it can also be, as we recognize, a difficult conversation.

And so, we want to talk about those and to share some strategies for keeping our kids safe. As we think about sexual abuse, how do we teach them concepts like consent and autonomy with language that young kids can understand? How can we help kids identify trusted adults and how they should respond if something does not feel right?

Our guest today is Diane Lampkins. She is a licensed social worker and training and child abuse prevention coordinator for the center for family safety and healing at nationwide children's hospital. She's here to share some practical and developmentally appropriate advice that parents and caregivers can use when talking with kids about body safety and autonomy.

Before we get to her, I do want to remind you that the information presented in every episode of our podcast is for general educational purposes only. We do not diagnose medical conditions or formulate treatment plans for specific individuals. If you're concerned about your child's health, be sure to call your healthcare provider.

Also, your use of this audio program is subject to the PDA cast terms of use agreement, which you can find at pdacast.org. So, let's take a quick break. We'll get Diane Lampkins settled into the studio and then we will be back to share strategies for talking with kids about body safety and autonomy.

It's coming up right after this. Diane Lampkins is a licensed social worker and a training and child abuse prevention coordinator for the center for family safety and healing at nationwide children's hospital. She studied child and family traumatic stress intervention at Yale university and has over 20 years of experience working with child victims of sexual abuse.

Diane has a passion for supporting children and families impacted by abuse and she's here to share some strategies for talking with kids about body safety and autonomy. Before we dive in, let's offer a warm PDA cast welcome to our guest, Diane Lampkins. Thank you so much for stopping by today.

[Diane Lampkins]
Thank you for having me. 

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yes, we're really glad that you're able to find time in your busy schedule to join us. Let's start with just some definitions.

The title of today's episode is strategies for talking to kids about body safety and autonomy, which is a mouthful. So, what exactly do we mean by body safety and autonomy?

[Diane Lampkins]
Yes. When we're talking to children, we kind of want to do this building blocks of having conversations from as soon as they have language to speak and talk, giving them language that they can understand and continue to build on that as they get older, even through teen and adolescent, you know, adolescent and teen years. And so by body safety, we're giving them the appropriate terms of body parts, including parts that are private and talking to them about, you know, when they can start saying eyes, ears, and nose and toes, that we would also want to talk to them about the parts, the bathing suit covers, the parts of the private and using again, words that when they are maybe with a babysitter or at a preschool, if they're able to say vagina or penis that that prefer that adult knows what they're talking about.

And so, autonomy though is giving them some more helping them build the ability to say no or yes to things about their body, giving consent. And so, if they don't like a hug from Uncle Joe that they haven't seen since the last holiday gathering, it's okay for them to say, no, I don't like that. And giving them some choice, you can give a high five.

So, supporting them in ways, starting early, kind of like I said, building those building blocks on ways to use language that people understand.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. Yeah. So important at the same time, it can feel awkward for parents.

So, when should you start talking about this? You said from an early age. So, and you mentioned, you know, when they learned what their fingers and toes are, they should start learning about these things.

But how do you start that conversation with a kiddo that's that young?

[Diane Lampkins]
Yeah. So, when you're starting to talk about body safety and education, we let them know that there are parts of our bodies that are private and because they're private, we take another special care. And so, there's a lot of ways that young kids are exposed to information already.

When you think about, they're watching YouTube, hopefully with parent consent, but also even movies, Disney movies, you're able to give narration about, you know, things that are happening to young people. So, we introduce topics like tricky people, right? And tricky people could be someone like in the Lion King where Scar was the uncle of Simba, who wasn't very nice and told him to keep secrets.

So, we have conversations like we don't keep secrets in our home. Surprises are okay, but sometimes tricky people will do things that aren't safe. And so instead of like good touch, bad touch, because even touches that are not okay, can feel good.

We don't want to confuse our children with that. We want to give them the language of safe and unsafe. Instead of stranger danger, we want to talk about tricky people, people that might not do things that keep children safe.

And so, we introduced it in that way.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
And there are a lot of tricky people in Disney movies. So, I can see why that would make for a really natural conversation. As you are watching or after you watch, that you can talk about these things and in a way that kids really can understand it.

Now, of course, in Disney movies, they're not going to use either. Probably not going to talk about anatomical terms for body parts. Why?

You know, and I think it is easier for parents sometimes to have nicknames for them and maybe because the parents themselves don't feel comfortable saying those, the correct anatomical words with their kids, but explain why it's really is important that even from a young age, we call things what, you know, they're by their, their proper names.

[Diane Lampkins]
Yeah, it is. Like you say, Dr. Mike, it's really important. And most times it is more of the caregiver who has this awkwardness around and it's kind of generational handed down.

They're using cutesy terms like pocketbook or butterfly. But if a child was to speak that and they're trying to give a disclosure of something happening to their body, it causes confusion to the adult who may not know what they're saying. But also, when we give correct terms, you know, it helps to take that shame out of body parts because we, we all have body parts.

They're also sexual beings. And so, at different stages when you're giving them this information, their body is nothing shameful about it. Sometimes kids, particularly young children are self-exploring their bodies, which is a normal developmental stage.

And so, you don't want to put any shame on that. And it's important that if they're able to say that and say it confidently, then you also deter people that are predator type behavior, because when they know that kids have the language and say, you know, no, stop that. I don't like that.

Or don't touch me here. They're less likely to aim or go for those types of children.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. Yeah. You know, one thing I think that also could make folks a little uncomfortable is, you know, kids just say what is in their mind.

They don't often have a filter. And so, they learn those and then, you know, they have an itch down in their private area and, you know, in public or at a family reunion, the kiddo might say, Hey, my penis itches. And you know, the parent may cringe, but that's actually, we want them to do that, right?

Like you want them to use the right words and not feel like maybe they shouldn't have said that.

[Diane Lampkins]
That's correct. Because while it may be uncomfortable for the parents or the caregiver or other family members, it is totally appropriate for them to say, yes, my penis itches. And that's when the caregivers say, thank you for telling me, let's go take care of that.

I appreciate you letting me know. So, you want to model that that is just what you want them to do. Let them know, let you know when something is hurting or uncomfortable so that you can address it.

And you certainly wouldn't shame them. You would thank them for bringing that to your attention.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
And even saying like, hey, don't, don't say that word around other people. That is shaming them.

[Diane Lampkins]
Exactly. You know, you want to practice something as basic as if you saw them with a peer and that peer was like, I don't want hugs. You could say, you know, I saw that Tommy said no more hugging.

Thank you for not hugging him anymore. You were a good friend, and you can always give a high five. So, reinforce that behavior when you see things that are happening with them, with peers.

Yes. Use those organic times and everyday conversations. When there's opportunity that arises, you continue to reinforce and build on those conversations.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
And that really does flow into the concept of body autonomy, which we have talked about, you know, saying kids need to be able to give permission and consent and to learn those things at an early age. What are some other ways that you can relate that concept of body autonomy to kids? And then how can parents role model respect for autonomy?

[Diane Lampkins]
Yeah, it's really important to let them know that they are the boss of their bodies. And so, starting early when you're, you're doing grooming, daily skills and be, you know, cleaning their bodies and help have them when they're able to learn how to wash body parts that are private, like we wash them, just like you wash your feet and toes. But if they're hurting, you know, mom and dad may help you, or we may take you to a doctor to look at that.

Otherwise, no one should be touching private parts, and we shouldn't touch other private, other people's private parts. Those are the parts that are private that no one touches. They're also the private parts that the bathing suit covers, and we cover them because they belong to you, and we don't show them to other people.

So even kids as young as preschool and kindergarten start to understand those concepts when you talk about them.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Are there strategies for teaching consent as we think about body autonomy that, that kids can understand? Are there, are there tools that parents can use or, or books, or we talked about Disney movies, but is there a way really to get to the point with, with some resources?

[Diane Lampkins]
Yeah. So, there's really some good books starting with a preschool at the center. We hand out a book called My Body Belongs to Me, which uses two little teddy bears, brother and sister, and they have conversations about body safety touches, ones that are okay, that are not okay.

And when parents are able to get involved and help them resolve the situation and each stage, there are additional books that parents can use. There's just a couple of good ones when the kids are, you know, I would say five to seven, there's called My Body, What I Say Goes and that's by Janine Sanders. And so, we'll drop some of those in our resource, but each age level, it gets a little more sophisticated.

And there's a really good one for tweens that's written by the American Girl Corporation, talking to them, not just about body development, but ways that things become uncomfortable or what to do when it's complicated.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. And we'll put links to those books in the show notes for this episode, 586 over at pediacast.org. So, folks can find them easily.

In terms of role modeling autonomy, what are some things that we should be thinking about as we have respect for our own bodies and our own consent as parents, but we want to do that sort of in a public way so that our kids can see us doing what it is that we want them to do.

[Diane Lampkins]
Yes, certainly. So just starting even with something as basic as asking, is it okay if I give you a kiss on the cheek? So, you want to ask permission and model that asking permission, or is it okay if I give you a hug, you seem a little sad, or would you prefer just sitting next to me and talking?

So, give them some options and choices. And when you're able to provide them with choice, it increases their voice, and they know that it's okay in any situation to say no to things that makes them uncomfortable or things that they just don't like. And so, modeling it by doing it that way could be even with dinner.

I know that you don't want to have peas and carrots, but we have, you know, broccoli or applesauce. So even in, like I said, everyday situations continue to offer voice and choice and options, but then also in situations that it involves their body, you know, would you like to sit on my lap, or do you prefer just sitting right next to me on the couch?

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. So, so important to, to have these conversations, even if as parents we feel a little uncomfortable with it, still just so, so important. And you probably feel uncomfortable about it if you're feeling that way, because when you were growing up, your parents didn't talk about these things in the way in the open way that we're saying is, is best practice for parents.

So, we sometimes have to get past our own past and, you know, with as much sexual abuses as out there, a lot of parents may have experienced this when they were kids and that may make it even more difficult to talk about.

[Diane Lampkins]
That's true. It's even important to, you know, other people know that we teach our children about body safety. And so, if it's a child, like an in-home childcare provider, you want to let them know, hey, they know about private parts, and we do this education.

And so if there's questions or if you have, you know, they know about this and that other family members know, you know, we openly talk about body safety, which is maybe uncomfortable for you, but in our home, you know, if we're having adults over, we let them know that our kids have been taught ways to stay safe. And if they don't like something, we respect those boundaries. We enforce those and because the safety of children is not on the child to be safe.

We want to give them the education so that they can report and disclose if something happens, but the responsibility is on the adults. And so, we can let them know, I understand you're uncomfortable, but this is the way we create safe environments and teach our children about ways to speak up for themselves and let people know that they don't like certain touches and things that make them feel uncomfortable.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. Yeah. We talked about tricky people in Disney movies and in Disney movies, it's pretty easy to spot who the tricky people are, but in real life, a lot of times tricky people are also really good at hiding the fact that they are tricky.

So how, how do you then get kids to move beyond sort of the stereotype of a tricky person and understand that it's more nuanced than that? But how do you explain that in a way that kids can understand?

[Diane Lampkins]
Yeah. So, you're right about that. Tricky people, when we bring up that at conversation, we talk to kids about, you know what, how we don't keep secrets in our family.

We don't keep secrets at home. It's okay to have surprise. Tricky people are sometimes the people that will break rules and try to get you to do things without your permission or offer you candy when, and ask you to, you know, promise you not to tell.

And we don't keep secrets. And so, these are individuals that can be strangers, but they can also be people we know. So, Dr. Mike, 90% child predators are people that we know and trust. So that makes this even harder for families to be able to share to children but practicing and like having role plays with our kids about what's safe and what's not safe and do a what if game. What if someone asked you to keep a secret about them, taking a picture of you and not to tell, what would you do? What if someone told you it was okay to take your, your pants down and show private parts, talk about what would that do?

So, you give them, you don't want to scare them or create scary situations, but you do want to educate them and provide, like I said, role plays, talking about what you do and who could you tell and how would you tell like, because this isn't that safe. Who's your safe adult. So that's where we start those building blocks.

As kids get older, we want to identify safe, trusted adults that you can talk to. So, if you're at school, can you tell the school nurse? Can you tell the library aid?

Who would you tell? And think about ways, you know, in handling that conversation.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah.

[Diane Lampkins]
Yeah. And even talking to them and like most often, you know, people would say it was a person in the white van with a trench coat that was going to be creepy. And that's not what a tricky person is.

Again, like I said, 90% predators are people that we know and trust. And so, we definitely want to say, you know, they don't look, it's not the scary person. We want to focus on situations that can be unsafe, that seem unsafe.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
So really teaching them the behaviors of a tricky person is how you recognize them and, and let them know it might be someone that, you know, these are the behaviors, you know, when someone tells you to keep a secret or, and also to really monitor how you're feeling inside. So, like as a kid, if something just doesn't seem right to you, to pay attention to that. And that again, is also something that may be hard depending on the child's developmental level to explain in terms that they can understand, but just, you know, say, you know, how sometimes you feel icky.

If you are feeling like something's not right, then something probably isn't right. And that might be a reason to disclose.

[Diane Lampkins]
Exactly. It is having those conversations, reviewing the safety rules that we've already talked about and established and talking about, right. What feels right to you and trusting your instinct, giving them those words, trusting how you feel inside.

You can always let mom or dad know or tell a trusted adult when something makes you uncomfortable or scared or sad. All of those are reasons to continue a conversation.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. Now, in addition to tricky people, there are also safe people who aren't tricky. Why is it important for kids to have an idea of who those adults might be so that they, you know, if there is an issue, it's someone that is safe to disclose that too, especially if they're not in the home, you know, like you're at school or you're at a social event or birthday party.

Why is it important to identify the safe folks who are around?

[Diane Lampkins]
Yeah, that's a really good question. When we're talking to our kids again about safety rules, and then we want to talk about safe environments, if they're feeling vulnerable in situations where they're away from their parents and even if their parents are just not in the room, identifying, helping them to identify. It's like kind of creating that safety plan.

We talk about fire safety and how to get out of our house. There's a fire. We want to create the same scenario where we have safe, trusted adults that they feel that they can talk to when something's going on, because oftentimes someone who may be violating those boundaries is someone, they, know and trust and they want to be able to have an adult outside of maybe even family members that they can tell.

And so, it could be like you said, that school nurse, or if they're at a holiday party, they've identified a family friend who they know that mom and dad are friends with, someone that makes them feel safe. And they know that they can tell this information too. It's always important that kids are able to have expanded safety networks outside of family.

Because again, most times that perpetration happens, it's happening with people that we know and trust. It could be a coach, you know, anyone that's providing like a dance lesson or a private music lesson. So being able to say, I can tell my school nurse or the school counselor or someone in the home that is an adult that I trust.

Yeah.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. And, and the safe person, because we've made the point that sometimes tricky people seem safe, and it may be someone that you know. And so, it even becomes more important to say even the safe people that we identify, if they do behavior that is more in line with a tricky person, you need to let me know about that.

[Diane Lampkins]
That's right. It's saying that no one is exempt from these safety rules. These are the safety rules for your body.

These are the safety rules we keep for our family. There are no secrets. And if somebody breaks that boundary, no matter who it is, I want you to tell, tell an adult and you keep telling until you get help.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. Now the thing that comes into, into play at this point is that sometimes we keep secrets, not for a nefarious reason, but because there's a surprise, you know, I'm thinking like, okay, we're going to buy a birthday gift for someone and it's a secret. Don't, don't tell them what this is.

So, there are times when secrets are appropriate, but I do like the idea that you kind of divide the secrets we're worried about versus surprises. So, tell us the difference between secrets and surprises and how do we get that concept across to kids?

[Diane Lampkins]
Yeah, it's, that's a really good question. It's so important to distinguish the difference between the secret and the surprise. And so, you want to give them the language.

A secret is something that is not safe and is, could be harmful or it could cause you to feel sad or scared. Surprises are things that you feel excited about and it's okay to not tell about a surprise because in the event, in the end, everyone's going to know about the surprise. It's going to be public and everyone's going to understand the surprise.

A secret is something you keep between just one or two people and you don't want to have secrets like that. And so, you want to give them your language and examples. And again, you can use those what if games and, and continue to have that conversation and developing those, you know, what it, what it looks like if someone did this or how would that make you feel?

Yeah.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
What is a family safety plan? And is this something that we should be intentional about doing and coming up with a safety plan right from the beginning? What does that look like?

[Diane Lampkins]
It's starting about talking about safe, safe situations and body safety and a safety plan. Again, you want to expand it from just like, what would we do? If there was a fire in our home or if something happened and there was a flood, how do we keep ourselves safe?

You want to expand that into conversations about body safety as well. And so, if someone were to give you touches, who would you tell and how could you tell and when would you tell, you know, so practicing scenarios with that, expanding it from regular daily safety. Like we talk about crossing the street.

We talk about putting on our seatbelts in the cars. We're also going to talk about if someone gives you a touch that makes you uncomfortable or makes you sad or scared or asks you to do things that you don't like to do and try to threaten you or make you feel worried. We want to have a plan for that.

Yeah.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
And then what should parents do if a child does disclose that something's happened, someone has asked them to keep a secret or there's been something that makes them feel uncomfortable. What should parents do at that point?

[Diane Lampkins]
Yeah, that is really important. So, you really just want to listen and give them that attention and, and watch, be very careful to watch your, you know, facial expressions because kids read us really easily. And so, it's kind of like having that game face, being able to just listen and thank them for telling you and talk about what we're going to do about this.

But you don't want to interrogate them. Allow them to tell you what happened. Listen to what they said, gather that information and talk about what we're going to do next and say, thank you for telling me you were being, you did what exactly what you were supposed to do.

Let me know when someone has done something wrong. And now we're going to talk, talk about how to take care of that.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
And then, and then, so that's with their kids. What actions do you take beyond that? So, I mean, do you approach the person that your, that your kiddo disclosed that there was an issue with?

Do you tell someone else, how do you know when to get like law enforcement involved? Like sort of from a parent's point of view, what are next steps once the child has said that there's a concern?

[Diane Lampkins]
Yeah, that's really good question. So, from a parent's point of view, if this is something that you really, you know, you hear that there's a disclosure of abuse, you definitely want to contact like the center. We provide a one-stop shop of how to address that.

You also could call your pediatrician. Pediatrician offices know how to handle. They contact us and say, hey, this is what's going on.

So, we get referrals from parents themselves, like a self-referral. We get referrals from doctor's offices and children's services, but they also, you know, if they believe this is, you don't want to tip that person off, but if it's a, it's a situation and you feel like this is something that was just a violation, a boundary violation that wasn't serious, but it made them uncomfortable. You want to let them know, hey, we still instill in our children, body safety and boundaries and body autonomy and something you did made my child feel unsafe.

And I didn't, I'd like you not to do that again. And this is how we handle this in our family. And you may let them know that if something, you know, you're going to be watching to, you know, you want to feel out this adult, if they're very offensive, you know, offended by it, that's a concern.

That's a red flag that you may not want your child around this person, that they're not able to respect boundaries, but certainly you want to be able to let it, whether it's a daycare provider, talk to them about this is the boundaries that we keep, this was a violation, and this is what I plan to do about it. And calling the center for a resource is a great, great option.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
And the center we're talking about is the center for family safety and healing at nationwide children's. And we'll put a link to the center in the show notes so folks can find it easily. And if you're not in central Ohio, still that advice of talking to your pediatrician, because they're going to know what resources are available in your particular community where you could get some help.

But the beauty of this sort of center is that you really have folks that can assess the situation all together. So, the child doesn't have to continually tell the same story over and over again. So, it's important to have someone who sort of knows how to talk to kids and how to get the story out without necessarily leading questions.

And then of course doing a physical exam that if something is found that they would, you know, it's someone who would feel comfortable talking about it in a court for instance. And so, you're going to have experts at interviewing kids and examining kids in specialized child assessment centers, which we have here at nationwide children's, right? That's correct.

We have a whole team. Yeah. Let's talk a little bit more about that team.

Who, who are the, who are the players?

[Diane Lampkins]
Yeah. So, we have specially trained physicians that do these cases that are working to look at the anatomy to ensure injuries and to collect the data. And along with that team, we have our Columbus police that are special victims unit that are housed and co-located at the center along with children's service staff that do this job.

And they have a 24-hour response to provide not just the interviews, but to walk families through this hand, you know, holding their hand. Our intake coordinators are the first phone call, you know, that they make are going to help them understand the next steps and just to reassure families. And even after the assessments are completed, regardless of whether it goes to court or not, there is our behavioral health, which will provide trauma specific counseling to children that have been abused and even the ones who have witnessed things like homicide.

So, we, we focus on child sexual abuse, but anything that is traumatic to children and families. And again, this team has specially trained interviewers that are social workers that receive a lot of specific trainings to ask these questions and child sensitive ways, non-leading fact finding, but helping them feel comfortable knowing how to get that information.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
And it's also important to understand that just because this evaluation is taking place does not necessarily mean that something bad has happened. And at the same time, it doesn't guarantee that nothing bad has happened. And so, we still want to use, you know, common sense and if someone makes you feel uncomfortable, but you can't really prove anything, that's probably still someone to keep your kids away from because you're not able to say for sure if something happened or not correct.

[Diane Lampkins]
That's correct. You know, there's just the way their bodies are made. They go back to looking normal.

So, you're not able to look and tell, but we do know is that children don't typically make these stories up that the amount of shame and blame that can from society that goes into this. And they just don't have the level of, you know, savviness to make up these details. And so, we believe children when they tell us that these things have happened.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
But you may not be able to find evidence of what they're telling you, I guess is what I was trying to make.

[Diane Lampkins]
Yeah, you may not be able to find the evidence. You may not have that information. You may not ever, the detectives may not ever find it.

And even they know that from doing these cases over the years that the credibility comes from the victim's statement. It comes from them saying, this is what happened. This is how it happened.

And they know that that's enough to make a report.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And then an investigation can go from there.

Why is all of this important? You know, I had mentioned that a lot of parents may have experienced sexual abuse themselves when they were children. And it's because it actually happens more often than any of us would like to think about.

[Diane Lampkins]
Yeah, that's true. When you think about, you know, one in 10 girls and one in, it's usually 20, but it's even lower for that. Boys tend not to report as often as girl.

And even the statistic that is highly rated talks about before their 18th birthday, a child will be abused or in situations where someone has tried to touch them. So that's why it's important. It's important to have these conversations because it's preventable.

And if we can get communities and to provide, you know, the education around it and hold adults accountable, you know, make sure if you see one-on-one situations where there are violations that you're addressing that adult and say, you know what, we don't allow that. You interrupt that situation, move on, but you definitely go back and address it later. We provide a training at the center called Darkness to Light, which is a child sexual abuse prevention education.

It's very helpful to school districts. It's helpful in churches. And it lets adults know how to manage these situations.

Having two adults, you know, to supervise. And that does, again, that they're not one-on-one situations that when you see a violation, again, that you addressed it immediately, interrupt that situation, let the child know that they did a good job and address it with the adults and talk about what the plan is going to be.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
And as you said, one in 10 girls and probably close to one in 10 boys, which is, again, it's not quite as common in boys, but probably because they don't disclose as often as girls do. So, something, it is something that happens, you know, for every 10 girls that you see out and about, you know, on average, one of them is going to have experienced sexual abuse before the age of 18. And 90% of those cases, the abuse is done by someone that the child knows, not the stranger in the white van down by the river.

Correct? That's correct. That's correct.

And the best way to really get your kids to be in tune with this and to, to report it and disclose it to you, if it happens is making it a normal part of everyday conversation, just like you would other safety things and beginning to do that at a really early age, as we talked about in the beginning, is the best protection that you can give your kids.

[Diane Lampkins]
That's exactly correct. Start those conversations early, make them organic in your daily, you know, when we're sitting down to dinner, ask about their day and just continue those conversations. And when something comes up that your question or concerned about, explore it and explore it in a way that the kids know that you're just talking about safety rules that we keep in our family.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
Yeah.

[Diane Lampkins]
Yeah.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
So, so important. And hopefully parents will take this to heart. Also though, I will say it's never too late.

So even if you have not started at an early age and let's say your kids are 10 now, it can be weaved into conversations anytime. And so, it is important to talk about these things, even if you have not started young. So, Diane Lampkins, we really appreciate you stopping by today.

And again, we'll have links to the Center for Family Safety and Healing and the Child Assessment Center at Nationwide Children's Hospital. We'll also have some links to those books and some other resources as well. So be sure to check out the show notes over at pediacast.org.

Again, this is episode 586. So, Diane Lampkins with the Center for Family Safety and Healing at Nationwide Children's. Thank you so much for stopping by.

[Diane Lampkins]
Thank you for having me.

[Dr Mike Patrick]
We are back with just enough time to say, thanks once again to Diane Lampkins. Thanks again to all of you for taking time out of your day and making PediaCast a part of it. Really do appreciate that.

And of course, thanks again to our guests this week, Diane Lampkins training and child abuse prevention coordinator with the Center for Family Safety and Healing at Nationwide Children's Hospital. Don't forget you can find PediaCast wherever podcasts are found. We're in the Apple podcast app, Spotify, I heart radio, Amazon music, audible YouTube, and most other podcast apps for iOS and Android.

Our landing site is pediacast.org. You'll find our entire archive of past programs there along with show notes for each of the episodes, our terms of use agreement, and that handy contact page. If you would like to suggest a future topic for the program, or if you just want to say hi, you can do that too on the contact page.

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Simply search for PediaCast. If you are a pediatric provider and that includes physicians, nurse practitioners, physician assistants, nurses, pharmacists, psychologists, social workers, dentists, any of those medical professionals, we do have a podcast for you. It's called PediaCast CME that stands for continuing medical education.

It is similar to this program. We do turn the science up a couple of notches and offer free category one CE or CME credits and all of those professionals that I listed. We are here at nationwide children's accredited by all of those professional organizations.

So, it is likely we offer the credits you need to fulfill your state's continuing medical education requirements. Shows and details are available at the landing site for that program. PediaCast CME.org.

You can also listen wherever podcasts are found. Simply search for PediaCast CME and because two is never enough. I do host a third podcast called FAMEcast.

This is from the Center for Faculty Advancement, Mentoring and Engagement at The Ohio State University College of Medicine. It is a faculty development podcast. So, if you are a teacher in academic medicine or a faculty member in any of the health sciences, then this is a podcast for you.

We talk about a faculty development topic. So, things like promotion, work-life balance, mentorship, coaching, all of these sorts of things that really do hone in on our skills as medical faculty. So, you can find FAMEcast at Famecast.org.

And of course, wherever podcasts are found, just search for FAMEcast, F-A-M-E-C-A-S-T. Thanks again for stopping by. And until next time, this is Dr. Mike saying, stay safe, stay healthy, and stay involved with your kids. So long, everybody.